Comments on: HDV – Is it something or is it nothing? http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2005/02/14/hdv-is-it-something-or-is-it-nothing/ Philip Hodgetts' random thoughts and items of interest on where the industry is at, and where it might be going today and into the future. Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:02:00 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Philip http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2005/02/14/hdv-is-it-something-or-is-it-nothing/comment-page-1/#comment-216 Philip Mon, 10 Oct 2005 02:56:26 +0000 http://intelligentassistance.com/blog/?p=8#comment-216 Definitely not dead. Supporting it takes 2-3 hours a day of my time, so I sure hope it's not dead (news, new tip every week day, constant adding to the articles and tutorials database). Most Pro Apps users would be thinking of going to 10.4 now (if they're smart) as 10.4 is almost ready for professional use. 10.4.0, 10.4.1 and to a lesser degree 10.4.2 had serious problems for Pro Apps users. We're dependent on a 3rd party plug-in for the Pro Apps Hub and the German developer has not yet released a 10.4 version. Not having a 10.4-compatible version is a serious problem for us, but until we remake as native OS X software, we have little choice. We are working feverishly to create an all-native OS X version but that's a significant undertaking. Thanks for your interest. Philip Definitely not dead. Supporting it takes 2-3 hours a day of my time, so I sure hope it’s not dead (news, new tip every week day, constant adding to the articles and tutorials database). Most Pro Apps users would be thinking of going to 10.4 now (if they’re smart) as 10.4 is almost ready for professional use. 10.4.0, 10.4.1 and to a lesser degree 10.4.2 had serious problems for Pro Apps users.

We’re dependent on a 3rd party plug-in for the Pro Apps Hub and the German developer has not yet released a 10.4 version. Not having a 10.4-compatible version is a serious problem for us, but until we remake as native OS X software, we have little choice. We are working feverishly to create an all-native OS X version but that’s a significant undertaking.

Thanks for your interest.

Philip

]]> By: JeffDM http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2005/02/14/hdv-is-it-something-or-is-it-nothing/comment-page-1/#comment-215 JeffDM Mon, 10 Oct 2005 01:56:49 +0000 http://intelligentassistance.com/blog/?p=8#comment-215 OK. It's just hard to see what it does when it doesn't support my computer. Is Pro Apps Hub dead then, or do most people that use Apple's Pro software staying behind anyway for other reasons? The reason I ask is that OS X 10.4 has been out for six months. OK. It’s just hard to see what it does when it doesn’t support my computer.

Is Pro Apps Hub dead then, or do most people that use Apple’s Pro software staying behind anyway for other reasons? The reason I ask is that OS X 10.4 has been out for six months.

]]> By: Philip http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2005/02/14/hdv-is-it-something-or-is-it-nothing/comment-page-1/#comment-214 Philip Sun, 09 Oct 2005 15:45:13 +0000 http://intelligentassistance.com/blog/?p=8#comment-214 Unfortunately the Pro Apps Hub is not compatible with OS X 10.4. As for why it's software - we simply cannot do what the Pro Apps Hub is doing in a browser. I wish we could, it would be simpler. A browser cannot manipulate files, build a database or deliver content through a floating window. Cheers Philip Unfortunately the Pro Apps Hub is not compatible with OS X 10.4.

As for why it’s software – we simply cannot do what the Pro Apps Hub is doing in a browser. I wish we could, it would be simpler. A browser cannot manipulate files, build a database or deliver content through a floating window.

Cheers

Philip

]]> By: JeffDM http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2005/02/14/hdv-is-it-something-or-is-it-nothing/comment-page-1/#comment-213 JeffDM Sun, 09 Oct 2005 13:50:50 +0000 http://intelligentassistance.com/blog/?p=8#comment-213 I realize this is an old article. Is there a reason to use a proprietary program? I think I "get" what you are trying to do with Pro Apps Hub but I also don't think it's worth building a special browser to do it when a well designed secure server plus a non-proprietary secure browser can do the trick and allow the collaboration that I think you are shooting for. I tried to use PAH but what I get are blank white screens until I select items. I had to just select and copy the HDV article to TextEdit to read it. I realize this is an old article. Is there a reason to use a proprietary program? I think I “get” what you are trying to do with Pro Apps Hub but I also don’t think it’s worth building a special browser to do it when a well designed secure server plus a non-proprietary secure browser can do the trick and allow the collaboration that I think you are shooting for.

I tried to use PAH but what I get are blank white screens until I select items. I had to just select and copy the HDV article to TextEdit to read it.

]]> By: Philip http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2005/02/14/hdv-is-it-something-or-is-it-nothing/comment-page-1/#comment-76 Philip Sat, 19 Mar 2005 18:29:54 +0000 http://intelligentassistance.com/blog/?p=8#comment-76 The oversampling for SD (by shooting HD) would have the same compression restrictions as in HD although the artifacting would be greatly reduced by being scaled down: artifacts are scaled down as well. The worst artifacting I've seen is a slight softening of the image, so that would sharpen up again. Oversampling will always give a better result than minimal sampling, other things being equal. Philip The oversampling for SD (by shooting HD) would have the same compression restrictions as in HD although the artifacting would be greatly reduced by being scaled down: artifacts are scaled down as well. The worst artifacting I’ve seen is a slight softening of the image, so that would sharpen up again.

Oversampling will always give a better result than minimal sampling, other things being equal.

Philip

]]> By: kiwifilm http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2005/02/14/hdv-is-it-something-or-is-it-nothing/comment-page-1/#comment-75 kiwifilm Sat, 19 Mar 2005 06:08:22 +0000 http://intelligentassistance.com/blog/?p=8#comment-75 Great article Phil, and yes, HDV probably is something. I recently purchased the HVR-Z1P (P for asiaPacific) with the justification that as a native 16:9 SD camera, it already fits in my requirements, but HDV in future will just be an added bonus. The PAL plu NTSC capability was a real bonus for us. Unfortunately for various reasons I just haven't had the chance to test HDV acquisition for SD downconvert output vis a vis straight SD recording - and now it's rented out and I'm setting off on vacation so it'll have to wait till April before I can test this out myself. In your article you do mention the benefit of downsampling with these cameras as providing pleasing results compared to the current crop of prosumer SD cameras... but if SD is the endgame, is there any benefit to record HDV and downsample HDV recording to SD as opposed to just recording SD (DVCam) in the first place? The MPeg2 compression with negative artifacting on motion and risk of drop out appears a definite downside, but "future proofing" for HD seems tempting. I'd be planning to use the PDVM pro cassettes... Have you had any thoughts or experience on this? Justin Keen Great article Phil, and yes, HDV probably is something.

I recently purchased the HVR-Z1P (P for asiaPacific) with the justification that as a native 16:9 SD camera, it already fits in my requirements, but HDV in future will just be an added bonus. The PAL plu NTSC capability was a real bonus for us.

Unfortunately for various reasons I just haven’t had the chance to test HDV acquisition for SD downconvert output vis a vis straight SD recording – and now it’s rented out and I’m setting off on vacation so it’ll have to wait till April before I can test this out myself.

In your article you do mention the benefit of downsampling with these cameras as providing pleasing results compared to the current crop of prosumer SD cameras… but if SD is the endgame, is there any benefit to record HDV and downsample HDV recording to SD as opposed to just recording SD (DVCam) in the first place?

The MPeg2 compression with negative artifacting on motion and risk of drop out appears a definite downside, but “future proofing” for HD seems tempting. I’d be planning to use the PDVM pro cassettes…

Have you had any thoughts or experience on this?

Justin Keen

]]> By: Mike A http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2005/02/14/hdv-is-it-something-or-is-it-nothing/comment-page-1/#comment-73 Mike A Tue, 15 Mar 2005 01:34:29 +0000 http://intelligentassistance.com/blog/?p=8#comment-73 Hi all! I own a Sony Z1 and love it. I wrote a review about HDV in Digital Journal magazine, due out soon. My thoughts are this: Final Cut Express HD does a fantastic job capturing AND going back to tape. However, when capturing HDV, the speed of your computer comes in to play a lot. It has to decode the MPEG2 and make it GOPs, so the faster the processor the less behind your computer will be than the camera. The only computers I've seen capture HDV in real time are PowerMac G5s either dual 2.0 or dual 2.5. I can't wait for the rumored FCP 5 at NAB so I have all the perks of using it vs. FCE HD. As for shooting, great lens, great LCD, and it artifacts when I used it while driving in a car... Thats all for now. See ya, and great blog! Mike Hi all! I own a Sony Z1 and love it. I wrote a review about HDV in Digital Journal magazine, due out soon. My thoughts are this: Final Cut Express HD does a fantastic job capturing AND going back to tape. However, when capturing HDV, the speed of your computer comes in to play a lot. It has to decode the MPEG2 and make it GOPs, so the faster the processor the less behind your computer will be than the camera. The only computers I’ve seen capture HDV in real time are PowerMac G5s either dual 2.0 or dual 2.5. I can’t wait for the rumored FCP 5 at NAB so I have all the perks of using it vs. FCE HD.

As for shooting, great lens, great LCD, and it artifacts when I used it while driving in a car…

Thats all for now. See ya, and great blog!
Mike

]]> By: Philip http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2005/02/14/hdv-is-it-something-or-is-it-nothing/comment-page-1/#comment-51 Philip Sun, 27 Feb 2005 03:00:50 +0000 http://intelligentassistance.com/blog/?p=8#comment-51 Jeff, thanks for the kind comments. I was looking at some HDV footage on Wednesday night and some of it was following runners at a marathon which I think would be a bit like your soccer games. There was no really obvious artifacting on those shots despite panning with the runner and moving along the street. OTOH, the shot that showed really serious artifacting was some orchids moving in the breeze but with a soft focus moving trees/bushes background. That was really hard for the MPEG-2 encoding to deal with so every time the orchid moved, it went soft (that's the most common way HDV artifacts). The blessing is that the human eye also "goes soft" when watching fast moving objects. ;-) However, I'd expect the 720 60P version of HDV to be significantly better for sports than 1080 60 interlace (ie 60 progressive frames v 30 frames/60 fields.) I managed to avoid NAB for 42 consecutive years but broke down in 98. Philip Jeff, thanks for the kind comments. I was looking at some HDV footage on Wednesday night and some of it was following runners at a marathon which I think would be a bit like your soccer games. There was no really obvious artifacting on those shots despite panning with the runner and moving along the street. OTOH, the shot that showed really serious artifacting was some orchids moving in the breeze but with a soft focus moving trees/bushes background. That was really hard for the MPEG-2 encoding to deal with so every time the orchid moved, it went soft (that’s the most common way HDV artifacts).

The blessing is that the human eye also “goes soft” when watching fast moving objects. ;-) However, I’d expect the 720 60P version of HDV to be significantly better for sports than 1080 60 interlace (ie 60 progressive frames v 30 frames/60 fields.)

I managed to avoid NAB for 42 consecutive years but broke down in 98.

Philip

]]> By: Jeff Elliott http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2005/02/14/hdv-is-it-something-or-is-it-nothing/comment-page-1/#comment-49 Jeff Elliott Sat, 26 Feb 2005 14:21:23 +0000 http://intelligentassistance.com/blog/?p=8#comment-49 Phil, What a fantastic overview of the HDV freight train! As a fellow who makes some moonlighting money shooting sports video (basic miniDV), I have been itching to get more details on what HDV is, and isn't. I've read all the reviews of the new Sony HDV camcorder and techno-lust was slowly but surely distorting my view of reality, not to mention tugging at my more-or-less empty wallet. I now have a much clearer understanding of the format and some of the editing choices/tradeoffs (I am FCP HD all the way). I was interested in your comment about the HDV format not being particularly good for 'high action sports'. I shoot soccer at the high school and college level, mostly elevated and up in the stands. Given that I have not had the opportunity to see any HDV footage of any kind (and for the 51st straight year, I am NOT going to NAB), I am curious as to your opinion as to whether HDV would hold up for such shooting, vis-a-vis basic, consumer DV. Once again, thanks for the wonderful article. I look forward to continued discussion of this topic, and I will certainly be referring my FCP friends and family over here at every opportunity! Jeff Phil,

What a fantastic overview of the HDV freight train! As a fellow who makes some moonlighting money shooting sports video (basic miniDV), I have been itching to get more details on what HDV is, and isn’t. I’ve read all the reviews of the new Sony HDV camcorder and techno-lust was slowly but surely distorting my view of reality, not to mention tugging at my more-or-less empty wallet. I now have a much clearer understanding of the format and some of the editing choices/tradeoffs (I am FCP HD all the way).

I was interested in your comment about the HDV format not being particularly good for ‘high action sports’. I shoot soccer at the high school and college level, mostly elevated and up in the stands. Given that I have not had the opportunity to see any HDV footage of any kind (and for the 51st straight year, I am NOT going to NAB), I am curious as to your opinion as to whether HDV would hold up for such shooting, vis-a-vis basic, consumer DV.

Once again, thanks for the wonderful article. I look forward to continued discussion of this topic, and I will certainly be referring my FCP friends and family over here at every opportunity!

Jeff

]]> By: Joe Langenfeld http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2005/02/14/hdv-is-it-something-or-is-it-nothing/comment-page-1/#comment-40 Joe Langenfeld Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:39:54 +0000 http://intelligentassistance.com/blog/?p=8#comment-40 Great article! I have used DVCPRO HD to edit HD and save on storrage...but it's 1280x1080 whereas HDV is 1440x1080. You've explained the difference well between 1440 vs 1920 (square vs rectangular pixels) but what happens to the size of the frame at 1280? Thanks, Joe Great article! I have used DVCPRO HD to edit HD and save on storrage…but it’s 1280×1080 whereas HDV is 1440×1080. You’ve explained the difference well between 1440 vs 1920 (square vs rectangular pixels) but what happens to the size of the frame at 1280?

Thanks,

Joe

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